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καλύτερη του jasonic. part 1
Summary
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By Steffan Chirazi
It is hard to explain the energy Jason Newsted brought with him from Arizona via Tommy’s Joynt the night he was anointed as the next Metallica bass player in the deep Fall of 1986. His eyes were like eternal crystals, catching any ray of light and refracting it tenfold in your face. He was so excited. So bubbly. Like a bottle of beer shaken for a month with the cap about to be removed. It’s also hard for any of us to really know the position he accepted, the shoes he stepped into. Because even though Jason Newsted never personally stepped into anyone’s shoes, he did. That was just the way things were. Both the band and the fans were in mourning. Nobody really knew what would be next, or even if there would be a long-term “next.” And so it was that this bright, positive and energetic young man drew on all his Midwestern roots to help Lars, James, and Kirk carve a path forward and help Metallica dominate not just the world of metal, but the entire music business.
I saw first-hand Jason’s importance and influence on key moments in Metallica’s career, and I also witnessed the periods of struggle and awkwardness. More than anything, I witnessed a man who always gave every last sinew to the cause, always delivering, always stepping up and always bleeding Metallica whenever the moment demanded and even when it didn’t. His attitude remained unwavering from the get-go, fortified by a wonderful, strong family unit, and his appetite for all duties was always large.
In sitting down to speak with Jason about the …Justice… era, the challenge was not how much we would find to talk about, but how much we would leave on the table for future discussions. With his art career in a wonderful place these days, Jason feels and sounds as happy and satisfied as I can remember. What follows centers around those early years in Metallica… the “garage” years… the …Justice… years. We were speaking for close to 90 minutes; it felt like 20.
Steffan Chirazi: I think we should start with you coming into Metallica, finishing the …Puppets tour and the Garage Days Re-Revisited EP, and how that early immersion was for you looking back.
Jason Newsted: I remember this, I remember that; “that” was this epic thing or whatever… it was moving so fast . And I was still in such a whirlwind of momentum because of how things finished up, you know. The Ozzy thing, the …Puppets thing, it was so unexpected for everybody, and such weird, weird ground that we were all treading. They were beginning, I guess, maybe some type of recovery, and I was trying to hold on for dear life, not wanting to do anything wrong, being the best I could be, being so thankful for my opportunity, all those things, the natural things, right? So that’s what I remember, just trying to be as on top of it as I could be and really be there and not miss a note. Not miss a beat, not be late, try to be as professional as I could. And then when I saw the photos in this book that came with the records for …And Justice for All , I got reminded of all kinda craziness. So overall, I remember it being very fun and very fast paced.
SC: Yeah. There’s a certain bewilderment in youth anyway, right? Would you say that you were always someone even before you came into the band who liked moving at a fast pace? You were always gonna do this project, gonna do this song, even in Flotsam & Jetsam (Jason’s former band)?
JN: I really think that’s true as I look back now at what has transpired and always being the leader of the other projects that I had. It would be tough for people to keep up with me. I guess that was really a natural thing, yeah. It probably came from my father’s gumption and energy, and him always talking to me about taking initiative, taking the reins and using your talents, all those things-
SC: Your father – and it must be noted actually for the record that your father was not only a lovely bloke but always a very, very big influence on you. I remember seeing him around a lot back then. He seemed to me to be a very good, honest, salt of the earth, blue collar, good American guy.
JN: Yeah, and still to this day, he’s pushing 83 now and he comes to all the Chophouse Band shows. He’s doing his thing and still that same cat, still proud, but now that he can sing along with the songs that we play, it’s much different ride for him; it’s a cool vibes there. But he’s still setting that example… he still does a lot of volunteer work and all that stuff.
SC: Yeah, amazing. And your brother as well. The Newsted family generally was always very, very supportive. I remember in the early days, you’d see some of the guys’ parents at shows, but you didn’t really see large family around in the same way – I mean your family would be around mob handed in the early days, all offering nothing but positive vibes as well. I mean, it was known. “The Newsted clan is rolling in” and it was kinda cool, right?
JN: Yeah, even though the guys would sometimes joke, “How many people on the guest list for Jason?” That would be a thing but, you know, James called my mom “Mom,” “Mama Newsted” or whatever; when he saw her, she insisted on it. That pretty much says it all right there. Everybody looked at her that way, so it’s a vibe right there.
SC: Picking your brain a little bit on coming into the band… we’ve talked about the fact that yes, you were definitely a leader, always energetic and always bringing a lot of very positive direct energy to what you did. And then we add the family dynamic. When you look back and you see where the guys were coming from at that moment in their history, which was a moment of potential great fracture with maybe their communication not being the best, do you think that the whole sum of what you brought beyond even your musical ability was imperative to helping keep it together? And I’m talking about everything that comes, including how big the Newsted guest list was, because that is bringing a family to a family that needed one maybe?
JN: Wow, beautiful. Over time, anyone that was close – including yourself – could recognize the roles that were played by each member. None was less vital than the next. There were the obvious things on stage that everybody saw and everybody knew, and there’s the thing behind the scenes that not everybody knew. And my stability, my family and the emotional thing, the foundation and all those things have helped me to have emotional tools to handle the journey that we were going through, that they were going through. When we were asked by, you know, Make a Wish Foundation as early as when I was three or four months in the band, I was the one that would step up to take care of those things. So part of my role, besides being the cheerleader and headbanger guy, was to take care of at least part of that emotional load for the collective. I think that’s true.
SC: Right. And correct me if I’m wrong here – semi-ambient thought coming up – but I seem to remember that in the second Carlson house, the one Lars had for Garage Days Re-Revisited , I seem to remember you ended up being almost the project construction leader of building the actual garage on that?
JN: That’s correct. Just like on the back of Garage Days Re-Revisited it says, “Building master J. Newkid” or whatever. So yeah, I definitely ordered all the materials and what-not, hammered everything together, got the soundproofing and all that, woke up Lars way too early a bunch of times and yeah, for sure, man. That was all part of my deal too. Because my Grandpa had taught me how to build things when I was a little kid. I just kinda did what I always knew how to do because that was what was needed at the time for us.
SC: It was a sweatbox, but it worked.
JN: And that was kinda maybe good for us too, man. Keeping it honest. Things were kicking pretty good right then, they were just getting ready to really fucking launch. So it was good for us to do our “marathon runner training in the heat” thing.
SC: Were you aware of the depth of issues that the other three were having to work through? Did you have any perception that they were going to be working through so much trauma when you joined? Did you already pre-accept that there was gonna be a certain amount of bullshit because they were where they were, or were there moments where you thought, “Holy shit, this is kinda not quite what I expected from joining Metallica”?
JN: I had really no thoughts of, or awareness of, or perhaps even the capacity to realize any of that. I was overwhelmed by having a chance to be in that band, and by doing my best on bass, the best that I possibly could. That was everything . Truly not everything but very close to it… living up to Cliff’s honor, and that is no shit. That is not some kind of sound bite bullshit or whatever, that was it and I didn’t want to let him down. I didn’t want to let them down. I didn’t want to let myself down. That’s all that mattered to me. I was just rolling with the punches of whatever was gonna come from all that. The grief and the different reactions? I wouldn’t have known that from fucking anything, and until it hit me in the forehead, I didn’t realize those things. There were a couple of moments with Torben [Ulrich, Lars’ father] and Jan [Burton, Cliff’s mom] and they would try to prepare me a little bit, but there’s no way that any of the people who played the important parts in this could’ve realized what it would take to keep it going, to ride the momentum that was being ridden, to put all that energy into it, to keep taking those chances on buses and planes and trains and all that shit and still keep kicking ass and being successful all the time! What an incredible load for a bunch of 23-year-old, 24-year-old guys.
SC: When you put it so plainly, it is actually insane.
JN: Right? I couldn’t think of that. I couldn’t think of that part of things. That part of me hadn’t developed yet. I’d only ever lost my animals at that point. I hadn’t lost grandparents yet. So I didn’t know about that. I was trying to step back and be as respectful to Cliff as I could’ve been because I knew how important that was to those guys. The most important thing to me was not overstepping that. I was trying to be myself the most I could, but not overstepping that shit. I had to retain respect, had to make sure those guys realized that I understood. And that I’d do my best. That’s all it was. Childlike wonderment and fascination and befuddlement, man, like fuck !
SC: It’s kinda interesting as well when you’re that age, and this is something I do remember very much observing from those times, that sometimes “hazing” disguises deeper pain and you just work through it.
JN: For sure.
SC: Briefly touching on some of the hazing that happened, and I think we should, the one that I remember the most significantly (and it’s a very small thing probably) was the toothbrushes. I seem to remember there were three and one.
JN: I don’t remember that!
SC: Oh, good, maybe you missed it, but I remember I’d see three toothbrushes on the table and yours was off to the right or the left, I can’t remember. I’d be like, “Wow, that’s kinda weird. It’s kinda strange.”
JN: Wow, talk about the detail!
SC: What early hazing things do you remember thinking, “Well, this is weird but I’m gonna power my way through it?”
JN: You know, to set the thing straight, because I think it’s just been blown so beyond anything that ever really took place because that’s what people sensationalize, or I don’t know, whatever little myths get built and so-on? I remember this. Very early, like the first six days, the first eight days I was in the band, I remember two significant things that happened that would be considered hazing, absolutely. The rest of the things that “whatever happened within,” that stuff was stuff they were dealing with, what they were dealing with, and we were all dealing with it together. But these two things I remember… in Japan, I would say the second day. I would’ve been in the band for about eight or nine days, within two weeks anyway. Scott Ian [of Anthrax] came to the hotel where we were staying, and I was blown out by not only the travel on the plane, going to this hotel – a super nice place – everybody being really, really courteous to you, giving you gifts and things. It was the first time Metallica had ever been in Japan. There was “Beatles shit” going on, going in and out of the back doors of places to escape. And they hadn’t been there to experience that either. I was experiencing that with them for their first time, and it was my first time but I’d never fucking been anywhere . The first time we played anywhere was a [warm-up] show in Anaheim, and then three days later we’re fucking touring Japan. We all went there the same wide-eyed “another planet” thing. Holy fuck! We’re taller than everybody!!! All the chicks were freaking out, and we’d never had that before, none of us. None of us . Tour manager, crew guy, James, none of us ever had that in our lives before.
So Scott’s there the second day, and we go for a photo session with Ross [Halfin]. We go to one of the Japanese garden things with the house and whatever for the photo op. And the cabs in Japan, you know how, they’re smaller. They’re not like cabs in Britain or in America – they’re smaller. And I get in first, and those guys all cram in another one, the three others and Scott in this little tiny fucking cab just so I would have to ride in one by myself behind them. Okay, [we got] to the place, and then we did pictures, then we went on drinking, we did what we did. That was one little thing, they were testing.
We did the shows, did all the things, traveled the five or six main cities in Japan, played ’em probably in six nights. Went to New York, got to Manhattan. And you know, James and everyone, they’re hitting it hard. We’re talking about 1986, right? So their blood level the whole time is who knows what, point three?! Right?! So James and the Samhain guys (who were doing their body building thing), these yoked out fuckers, they go out drinking in New York ’til four or six or whatever the fuck would take place then. And so they come to the hotel, come to my room, and they’re banging on the door. I’m out asleep. We’ve just traveled from Japan, we’ve been doing all those shows, I haven’t slept in a fucking month. Finally lay down a little bit in someplace that speaks English. Okay, here I am. Knock on the door 4:00 am. “Those fucking punk (dogs).” I wasn’t answering that. It did not sound good. So they go down and try to get the key from the desk, dude won’t give ’em the key. So they kick the fucking door in!!! It was one of those old hotels with the walnut trim, the whole door breaks and goes splintering into the room. They come in and start flipping shit, flip the mattress over with me underneath it, burying me underneath all the shit, all the chairs, all the other shit. Take my stuff, throw it out of the eight-story window down into the street. “ Welcome to the band, motherfucker!!!” Out the door.
And that’s it and there I am. Those are the two things I remember of hazing out of fourteen and whatever years in the band. I don’t know how it all got to be so blown out of proportion, but that’s the two that I remember the most.
SC: Interesting, and let the record note all of the above, specifically that the hazing was blown out of all proportion, although that last one is quite something! Let’s focus on one of the positive dynamics of the early era, of which there were many, but one that always intrigued me, and I think is very true, how vital Lars’ energy was in Metallica continuing at that time, that without him it might not have gone on or be here now. You came in with a lot of energy which I think was super helpful, and that between the pair of you, you helped propel and re-energize James and Kirk at the time.
JN: For sure, and kinda, yeah, folding in from the last question, you know, in any exclusive club you have to be checked out, vetted to make sure you’re gonna cut it. If there’s a club that there’s only six members in, which I was stepping into, you gotta be – everybody’s gotta know you’re up to snuff. So once Lars kind of felt that in his own self, like he was the one that got me in the band. He’s the one that pushed for me to be in the band and then he wanted to champion me no matter how difficult it was amongst the fallout of Cliff situation and all those things, he was a pillar in that way because of his out and out drive. The aspiration to be the biggest band. All those things that he really, really truly believed that they could do and they have achieved. Plus, there was his foresight and also his knowing, his actual knowing, his education, his geographic knowledge, the sort of things that came from travel with his pop, all those things that he had that we didn’t have. That kind of leadership was so vital right then. And so I think I came in maybe as a fuel and a transfusion type of thing, but I would’ve not ever had the understanding of what it took to get the band around the world and kick ass where we had a chance to kick ass. I would not have been able to comprehend that. I gave raw fuel. He had the engine to take that fuel, we pushed it. That’s what I say.
SC: That’s a great perspective.
JN: Propulsion.
SC: No, that’s a great perspective. Moving on, I remember a key show early on where that energy was on 11. The 100 Club in London in August of 1987 where I think you passed out. I think I remember it being 100 degrees in there. Where were your creative thoughts going in terms of, “There’s gonna be an album to be written”? Do you remember what sort of creative thoughts you were having in ’87 or so as the time was coming to start writing?
JN: I don’t think I probably woulda comprehended album cycles, touring cycles, or any of those things at all yet. I would take it as it came. They would say, “Be there for rehearsal, have something ready, put some ideas down.” I was always writing and making riffs just like I did for whatever band, so I had tapes, just speaking of the actual physical bass notes on tape and arranging riffs. And something I do want to be very clear about, Steffan, that you kind of blew over there, at the 100 Club the initial time that Metallica played there, I don’t think any band members passed out. I know that I didn’t for sure. I know that I was at least in the top one percent of persons in that room in terms of what shape I was in. I’m not sure where that myth came from, but I just want to be clear. Because that’s that kind of silly shit that people bring up which isn’t true about us, and I don’t really talk to anybody about this shit, so I just want to be clear when I do.
SC: Good, excellent, in fairness I mis-remembered that for sure.
JN: Brian Tatler came on right before we did “Am I Evil?” or whatever Diamond Head songs that we did, and everybody took a second while he got his guitar together, we all sat down. So if you see those photographs from that time, it’s me and James sitting next to each other. So that is the actual truth with that story of Metallica on that gig. We, I, hung in there. Just so everybody knows.
SC: Good. Record set straight. So, thinking about those early riffs that you’re writing in your room, let’s discuss which ended up at the initial One on One Recording (studio) sessions?
JN: Let’s see… back in those early days, we would have a few weeks off in between the likes of a tour which would go a couple/few months at a time. We’re talking ’87-’88 things. And we were still bros in that way that we still just had single rooms, Lars had the Carlson house, we were all within a five-mile radius. I would go feed and take care of James’ cat, he would come take care of my cat. That’s how we were. I had a pretty steady girlfriend at that time who was a good cook and had them over for dinner. We’d jam a little bit on the couch and record some ideas here and there. You know, so that’s kinda where my head was with entering writing songs with Metallica. James and I sitting around just knocking funny things around, jamming from there to whatever. And very rapid paced things back then. I’d stepped right out of Flotsam writing all the “d-d-d” pretty quick handed shit.
One afternoon we were jamming, and I had my little four-track thing going. I was fucking around with the “Blackened” riff and James was sitting there and he goes, “What’s that?” And I played it a couple more times and went however many ever rounds it was. And he starts picking it up, picking it up, picking it up, playing the counterpoint part to it. It became this “thing.” And he said we gotta use that. So that was my first encouragement, pat on the back. “We’re gonna use that riff, dude, write some more?” That was when the switch got turned on for me being accepted as a writer in the band, you might have a chance to put some of your riffs in. After being kinda the primary thing, Mike Gilbert and I in Flotsam, we came up with how many ever songs that was. You know what I mean? So that was the initiation.
SC: That’s quite an entry point.
JN: Yeah.
SC: That’s not a bad entry point to have. I mean bring people into, if you can, and what you remember of that. Bring people into what it’s like when you first start writing and jamming with someone like James who is obviously got, you know, a very titanic and totemic sense about what he does. How did that work? Literally, if you can, bring the reader into sitting on the couch and the whole, “Fuck, I’m writing with this guy.” What is that like? What does that entail?
JN: The beginning line should be that talk is cheap and you gotta let the riff and the music do the talking. He’s not gonna hear somebody that’s babbling. Play the shit. If it’s good, it is, if it’s not, it’s not. In that sense he is a man of few words, you just get down to business. That’s the start of it. That’s the feeling.
Here’s a cool image for everyone. So we’re in what would have been the one extra room in my apartment. I’ve got my 1986 Damage, Inc. tour poster set up above my little studio thing, a little four-track there and a little bitty table, just enough room for me and him to sit in the corner. I’m playing on a bass that wasn’t my tour bass, it’s whatever bass that I had knocking around. I was fucking with that riff, he plays along with it, and I push “RECORD” and that becomes the opening track for the album that we’re about to go start writing riffs for. I didn’t have the mentality past what I would write in Flotsam. I write the bass part. You know, just like any song with the intro and a verse and a chorus, a solo, a low line, and so on and so forth. I knew enough to construct certain songs, but the caliber that they were at that time was way fucking up there, way steps beyond anything I’d ever put together with any of the guys in Flotsam. They’d already done “Fade to Black” and “Orion,” so I was trying to figure out how to get up to a caliber to even bother playing it in front of them rather than giving them a demo tape with some ideas. So the playing in person with them was always rather intimidating. But once I got the thumbs up from them, I wanted to play that much harder and faster. It was like a kid who’d want to have approval of his best buddy type of shit for sure. There was so much respect there from the albums that they’d already done, he was the dude in Japan testing my shit for the first time for real. After all the months we went through, whatever silly hazing, drinking, having fun, he and I always linked up. Lars and I hooked up for that thing [energy] and James and I hooked up for this kinda thing [riffs, writing].
We’re very much alike. More like country kids, down with trucks and guns, it was definitely that vibe tied together, and also the true fucking raw metal thing, wanting to play that heavy shit. We bonded like that. So it was really important to me to get his thumbs-up, and the more thumbs-up I got, the more riffs I gave. I’d try to support his good songs, that’s really what I’ve always said. Try to write the coolest material I could to support the shit that he’d already put together.
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part 2.
Summary
SC: The other person in this band with whom you obviously had a pretty tight relationship was Kirk. It seemed like you two would definitely enjoy proudly nerding out on music, loving music, just hanging and being weed buddies, maybe being each other’s social foil whereas perhaps with the other two it was “go to work”?
JN: Well, definitely there’s camps that divide in different ways. Within the four members when I was there, the one camp that’s probably the most obvious to everybody is the “Lennon-McCartney” camp. You know, those guys are the songwriters, the leaders of the band. They’re doing their thing and Kirk and I are the other guys. We held our own doing our thing on the stage, interacting, no weak link and the sum is greater than any of us as individuals. So we obviously succeeded with that. But then there were other things between us.
Like I was describing with James, we had that tie between hotrods and stuff, and then Lars and I had a tie with sheer energy, understanding each other and appreciating each other’s drive. He had some things that I never had, and I had things he never had. So those kind of respects, longing, wonderment, but always digging each other because when it came right down to it, we were very, very supportive of each other. Very protective of each other. We all were that, but Lars and I, I think we were really protective of each other in different times. And Kirk and I, yes, we were the ones that jammed the most at 2:00 am in hotel rooms. Kirk is a big, big hearted guy. He’s such a sweetheart. He’s very volatile and vulnerable and I think that he looked out for me and I looked out for him.
SC: Was there a riff or two from your late-night hotel jams that you can remember throwing forward for the …Justice… record that maybe had its birth in some jam sessions between you two, or is that… did it not really work like that?
JN: I think it’s very possible because we recorded everything, so pretty possible that some of that was put forward. I can’t remember specifically. I couldn’t name a riff that became something on an album, I really can’t do that right now, but perhaps if I listened back through those things, through time we could pick up the seeds of what became something later. But encouragement-wise, absolutely . No matter if it was slide dobro weirdness or for real rocking metal fast handed, we were always encouraging if it came up.
SC: So let’s get into the studio here at One on One. And I’m gonna ask you the six-cent question of what memories you have of the initial work that was being done with Mike Clink and so on and so forth.
JN: Just so we’re clear, my participation in the …Justice… thing was quite limited. I went down for the days that I recorded my bass and for the rehearsal parts of course, but for the picture of being at One on One in Los Angeles and all that action, what I remember is that I still lived in my little apartment. I loaded up my old truck, still with the fender missing and shit, this old beat-up truck. Loaded up my shit that I recorded the Flotsam album with, my same cabinet, same head, same instruments, and drove down to Los Angeles on my own. I got in early in the morning and there was an apartment that I think was supposed to be the band place or whatever, I got the key somehow. I got there and it was just a fucking mess. I think James had split, there was no one there. And nobody cleaned or anything! So I went in there, I crashed out in a chair or something. And then some guy came knocking on the door at 7:00 in the morning yelling, “Who are you, what are you doing here? They gonna tell us when you switch?!” and I didn’t know what he was fucking talking about! So anyway, I got my bass together, and I got down to the studio the next day.
I only remember Mike Clink in a vapor. He was the guy that did Guns N’ Roses something or other, and we were going back and forth, “Are we gonna get Flemming? What’s this guy doing?” “No, he made Appetite for Destruction so if you get him, blah-blah,” some kind of reasoning with the politics and blah-blah. And I was like, “Can we just record this? I’ve been practicing my balls off. I drove all the way down here. I can knock down, put the song up, I’ll knock it down. Put the song up, I’ll knock it down. Put the song up, knock it down.” It wasn’t “spend days and days on tracks” or anything. This is “fucking play the fucking thing.” That’s all I ever knew from Flotsam or any of those times. You are limited, you can’t afford the studio. Need to get the album done in six hours. You get down and play your fucking part.
SC: That’s very interesting.
JN: It was all I ever knew. Garage Days Re-Revisited , same thing. They played the thing, I played the bass. One, boom, boom, boom, boom. Five songs. Go home for dinner. That’s it. There wasn’t any hovering around [on …Justice… ], so I played what I knew, same amp, same bass, same thing. Recorded. Done. Did it in six days. Drove back up north. I was there for maybe a week in Los Angeles. Those guys did whatever they did, then we started touring. And then whatever happened with the album, it came out some months later. That’s my involvement with recording the …Justice… album.
SC: Interesting, because it reminds me of two very specific memories I have of that time-frame. I’ll start first with the tour, Monsters of Rock, which was the tour where things were going fucking bonkers . I remember just being blown the fuck away. I distinctly remember Sammy Hagar coming up to you guys in Tampa at one point and saying, “Hey, you guys are kicking our ass!” cheerfully! Like he was resigned yet very generous about it. And I remember thinking, well, it’s true, this is happening big . So first of all, talk a little bit about that tour and how you felt watching Lars and James taking off all the time to mix the album. Did you have an itch to be involved in that process or was it understood, “No, not my bag, not my world, I’m here helping establish this band as the greatest live band in hard rock and roll history.”
JN: There was no choice about whether I was going or not. It wasn’t even an option. We were in the middle of the tour and they went on the days in between, because it was a touring thing with just two sets. Just Thursday, Friday, Saturday, however that worked out. And the days in between you either get something going, we stayed hotel when those guys would go up to Woodstock and get that shit mixed in between. Lars was still down with his full party mode. James was still down with his full party mode. And Kirk and I, we’d go and do whatever we did, and it seemed like you’d close your eyes twice, get up and there’s another show. There wasn’t really an option about the whole band travelling in a limo and going through all the shit those guys went through to try to have these two certain guys mix the album for whatever reasoning there was. That wasn’t even put on the table about you guys are gonna go mix too, it was never even considered one way or the other.
I’ll answer the second part of the question. Yes, the whole goddam deal was about telling everybody what we were about! We had these big crowds in front of us. We played during the middle of the day when all our energy was peaking, and we’d get to go and show the motherfuckers what’s there. People were there for us anyway. A third or a half of every one of those crowds was there to see us because they’d heard about what the fuck was happening, what was coming. And I want to tell you that for me, it’s right there, top three most exciting sections of months in my career as a musician in 30-however many years. So that particular time right there for me, between that and the Guns N’ Roses thing [in 1992 – ED], those were the biggest learning experiences and proudest moments of victory for us. That Monsters of Rock thing, we were second on the bill, and people would be scared to go after us no matter what. That’s just the way it was. We were laying that shit down. It was fucking evil. Everything was still fast. Giant three, four, five pits of 300 people at a time across the football field. Evil, man. Straight fucking evil . And untouchable. Bullet proof. That was the most eye-opening, mind-opening thing that I ever experienced because of right where it hit. I finally got a little rest. I was finding rhythm as a member of the band. We were very victorious by that time, about 30 countries in, and we had a chance in America to do this with our heroes playing at the end of the night. The Scorpions, you kidding me??? If it wasn’t for Tokyo Tapes and those things, I wouldn’t even have liked rock music probably.
SC: Cool. And then the second memory I have of that era, and you might remember this, Lou [Martin – an old friend and brother of ex-FNM guitarist Jim Martin] and I were out in Detroit for the Silverdome (which to me is still one of the most incredible live experiences I’ve ever had watching any band let alone this band). It was also the first time I ever heard anything of the record. I remember being in your hotel room. You had a ghetto blaster in your room. You put the tape on. You played it, and you know, being not maybe of the most like technically sophisticated ear, just reacting to the sound that was coming out of the speakers, the songs, we were like, “Wow, this is pretty good. This is great. This is heavy shit.” And I remember you stopping and saying, “Do you hear anything?” I’m like, “What are you talking about? Of course we hear something!” And I remember you saying, “There’s no fucking bass on there. Do you hear the bass??!” We started laughing, that weird, uncomfortable laugh, and I didn’t really know what to do. I mean you weren’t actively pissed but you were certainly a bit surprised to say the least.
JN: At the time I was mostly confused. The record that we had done before that in five days, Garage Days Re-Revisited , the bass is big as fuck. And so I’m going, “Okay, so that’s how we’re gonna do things, right, and I’m leaving it in your guys’ hands to mix the album.” It’s a metal band and it’s supposed to have weight to it. So that’s kinda what I was expecting. I had nothing to do with anything about pre-mixes or you know, tests runs or making decisions over time, none of that that took place. There was no chance to hear it and say, “That should be that” or give an opinion about anything. It’s just, “Here’s the product.”
So just as a Metallica fan, I’m like, “That doesn’t sound like a metal band.” It’s like a garage band. Which became a thing, garage music. Detroit garage music, like White Stripes or those kinda things. In hindsight, …Justice… is one of the instigators and pioneers of the garage sound, just guitar and drums. And you know, I was pissed for the first couple years, and when people brought it up, yeah, it’s not very proud to listen to and blah-blah-blah-blah. But now we’re 30 years in, and people still talk about it… I think it’s perfect. I think it sounds fucking perfect , because if it wouldn’t have done what it did [success-wise] they wouldn’t have been whatever high they were. This is what came out? Great. It’s like the way people are still talking about “you guys lost the Grammys” and so-and-so [in 1989 …AJFA lost the Grammy for “Best Hard Rock/Metal Performance Vocal or Instrumental” to Jethro Tull’s Crest Of A Knave – ED]. If we woulda won it, nobody would’ve given a fuck or said a word about it. But they still talk about it today and tomorrow, and they’ll still talk about …Justice… next week, about “that” thing. If …Justice… hadn’t been mixed like that, it’s another album. It became legend because of its garage sound.
SC: That’s, you know what? That’s an amazing take. I hadn’t even thought about the fact that it is a garage sound. I mean, I’ve never heard that phrase attached to this record but it’s so true.
JN: Yeah. Yeah, and because it was so drastically missing low frequencies on the bass drum, when The Black Album came out, the bass is fucking gigantic. Like the beginning of “…Sandman” takes people’s fillings out at the football stadium every week. You know? We got a real producer that knows about bass frequencies and knows how to get ’em underneath James’ rhythm guitar frequency [a reference to The Black Album producer, Bob Rock – ED]. If you want to get scientific about it, that’s what it all comes down to. People want to talk about the mix and the singing and the new guy in the band and “blah-blah’s mixing like this,” that has fuck all to do with it. It’s where everybody’s brain was at the time, how everybody was being pushed. That’s how the songs were created in Lars’ basement. There wasn’t really ever bass present in the songs other than “Blackened.” That’s the way it happened. It’s perfect now, and because of it, the bass became bigger on the other records. It was exactly what was supposed to happen in order for the band to rise.
SC: Great observations. Even though you said you were bewildered, I can’t say I noticeably saw your head drop, and when you played it was like you were bringing every last drop. Did you just think, “Okay I’m gonna give even more to the live show, make myself even more of a presence, and bring even more to the party than even I might’ve known I could possibly do?”
JN: For sure. It was always my M.O. You know, going back to the roles where we started this conversation. The roles I played in the band – I was that guy onstage. If the other guys got tired or wanted to take a break for that or whatever, put it on Jason. He’s gonna be banging. His hair’s gonna be flying around, he’s gonna be sweating like fuck. Go ahead, take the shot, and 100% of the time you’re gonna get a shot. So that’s what it became for me. I had to prove it to the people and to myself in the real world. That’s all that really mattered. I don’t know if it was vindictive or making up for competency, I don’t think it’s anything to do with that.
SC: Great. A side question which is gonna seem rather trite compared to what we’ve been discussing but it has to be done because it was somewhat of an underground cultural revolution. Jason, when was the first time that you decided to take a shaving unit to the sides of your head and shave your head on either side, thus leaving a massive mane in the middle with shaved bits on the side? You will have noted was copied by James, I copied it, loads of people did. I think pretty much everyone who was into heavy copied this hair and suddenly from nowhere it was the thing . So I have to ask you…
JN: …my fucking legacy hahahaha!
SC: I have to ask you, one, what made you do it? And two, can you remember the first time you did it and thought, “Fuck, this is kinda cool?”
JN: I’m gonna work backwards! If you look up on Google… Google Newsted right now and it’s a haircut. It comes up as a haircut, it doesn’t come up with “the bass player for Metallica,” it comes up with a fucking haircut! So there you go! It goes back to the late ’80s and a band in the San Francisco thrash scene called Vio-lence that became Machine Head, you know?
SC: Oh, yeah. I wrote about Vio-lence often. Yeah.
JN: So they were my very favorite of the Bay Area bands. I really looked up to ’em. You know, they were as tough as fuck. They were still playing clubs when we were out playing giant places, but I’d still come and see ’em, and cheer ’em on and shit. I love them. And Deen Dell, their bass player, he shaved his head one show, on the side, and he’s fucking whirling it around like he was psycho. And I thought it was bad as fuck, dude. So I went home that next night and cleaned that shit up. Went out onstage, and it caught on. That was the beginning of the end.
SC: Okay, some memory lane questions now. Playing the Troubadour in LA pre-Monsters of Rock tour.
JN: I remember the room only because I remember the club. We went under the moniker Frayed Ends of Sanity, and I was excited about playing new songs from the album for the people in the club with all the sweating and whatever else. It’s one of the first times that we got to take more than one …Justice… song sung that close with only a few hundred people in the room, and it was loud as fuck.
SC: Three nights in London at the Hammersmith Odeon.
JN: We have to look back in the history. Because of Motörhead it was a big deal to go in there, a super big deal, and then when my bass solo came I really, really, really wanted to do good and it was all because the live Motörhead album [ No Sleep ‘Til Hammersmith – ED] played such a big part in my learning my bass with a pick and growling. I had pretty heavy basses, and between those and the headbanging, I was really crushing my vertebrae, which was the beginning of my crushed neck. I was really hurting, and Bruce Dickinson of Iron Maiden said, “You don’t have to do that to yourself, why are you doing that to yourself, mate?” And I’m like, “Dude, that’s what I do!” I wasn’t a, “Dude, bang your head now” guy; it’s what fucking what happens. I become the song and I become the monster and I become the thing, that’s what happened. Like a jogger or a runner has to move his legs to run. It was the same fucking thing.
SC: It must be said though, nobody could quite whirl their head at the angles that you could. It was like you had a ball and socket joint where your neck hit the top of your spine around your chest and shoulders.
JN: It’s all good. It was a huge occupational hazard, like a dancers’ knees, same thing. I will let you know that it’s much better because the music that we play [in Jason’s Chophouse Band – ED] now isn’t quite as savage as that was, and I play a lot more guitar than bass these days, so it’s not quite as vicious as those times of course.
SC: Okay, three words: Long Beach Arena.
JN: Vicious. I remember there being a pit around the mezzanine, the place there that you walk around the middle rail. Not the top rail but middle rail from the ground bleachers up to the next set of bleachers in the concrete. So that walking area in front of those seats, all the way around the arena was a pit.
SC: Wow.
JN: All the way around the thing in front of all the seats people. That’s a vision from there. A couple of people got hurt. I think had to stop once or twice during that one to help people.
SC: That’s crazy. Now to Newark, Delaware, and a tiny place called the Stone Balloon.
JN: That’s right! Stone Balloon was part of our quest, mostly being led by Lars, that on the …Justice tour, however long it went, we were gonna play all 50 states in North America. We had not achieved that yet, very few bands had actually. So we went to the only place that would somewhat logistically handle our show on that stop, on whatever Wednesday fucking night in Delaware it was. That’s the only place in the state that would allow us to play, they had enough amperes to run the gear. It might’ve been a free events thing. And we let ’em know 30 hours before or something, that we were gonna play there. By the time it came to 5:00 or 6:00, they had to close the roads around the club because there were thousands of people outside in the streets fucking everything up or whatnot. Not breaking things or anything like that, but just a little bit unruly and wondering why they couldn’t get in because the capacity was 800! The fire marshal was freaking out! I remember it being a really sweaty, original punk rock vibe, like everybody’s in, we’re all fucking in it, and you could see everybody’s eyes! It was really one of the only times that it ever happened like that that I can remember directly. We did some MTV things that were like, “Play at that club with Metallica” and it was all advertised with that, but it was rather controlled and tempered. But in this one it was savage , it was like the old days, man, fucking out and out blood and sweat.
SC: Do you think it compares with that 100 Club show?
JN: No. Nothing compares with the 100 Club show but I would say that’s right up in the same field, yeah.
SC: So a question in a question. I seem to remember at some point on the …Justice… tour you literally nearly got decapitated by the swinging truss stunt. Dan [Nykolayko, Box Set Curator – ED] asked about the Seattle show and the film shoot. I, in my muddled memory, was putting the two as having happened at the same time. I don’t know if that’s accurate. So whatever you can do with those questions.
JN: Right, so when they had the Doris …And Justice for All little bit of destruction, and she broke down and tumbled or whatever, and it was taken down piece by piece… at the very end of [the song] …Justice… it was sparks and she tumbles the rest of the way down, right? And then that truss comes swinging right above Lars’ drum set over on Kirk’s side of the stage up on the third step? There was one show – not very many shows in, six shows in or something – and the thing almost fucking hit me. And John Broderick [OG lighting designer – ED] and those guys were tripping balls. They came back to the dressing room, “Bro, you okay? Please don’t do that, fuck, dude, fuck. My heart’s in my throat.” You know, those sorts of sentiments. Like big brothers. And so from then on I intentionally dared it. I would taunt it, know it was coming down, go up and duck at the last minute, so people would take it as drama. It got kinda old with the crew after a while, but someone would always make a comment that only saw it one time. And every once in a while John would say, “Dude, that was too fucking close that time.” But it was different from where he was watching. I knew what I was doing, and so yeah, that became intentional.
SC: I thought it might’ve been Seattle but doesn’t sound like it.
JN: Do you remember when they used to put the lighting in the pyro chart, you know, a bunch of conspicuous places around the arena, right? Even if it was the same 30 shows in a row they would still show where the flame pots are gonna be placed. After a while they started adding into the schematic an image of me getting decapitated! It was my head rolling off, and then they’d put that around the building.
SC: What do you remember about the Seattle show and film shoot?
JN: Let’s see. That was the first time we really started getting serious about more than just a couple cameras. Because you know, Jumbotrons and all that that’s become the norm-norm-norm now, it wasn’t really that. If you were included with a bigger band like Van Halen or something, you might get a little bit on the screen, but other than that, cameras weren’t involved. That’s when it started coming into our world. We’d never done it officially, as it were, before that time. So that was a difference.
You know, we all do this to show off. We work real hard, practice, and then show off. So when you get to show off that much, and it’s really down to the microscope of the camera type deal, we were on our toes in a different way. When you know it’s gonna be recorded audio, video, and all of that, you don’t want to screw up even more than usual. You want to come off extra, extra good, you don’t want to wipe out. It does add a different element to your presentation, for sure.
SC: The Shoreline show from ’89 is legendary, number one obviously because Faith No More was out with you, and this was one of the shows in particular where I remember the after-show party went pretty much ’til 5:00 am at the venue ! What do you remember of that particular gig at Shoreline?
JN: That was the victory lap. Each time that we came around to home for Metallica it was a victory lap. You can mark ’em in different ways every time, the Newsted family thing, if we go to Denmark then it’s the Lars show. There’s always these certain spots where you get a victory lap, and you kinda mark it with those things. There’s anticipation that something’s gonna happen in that location. So when you mark the victory lap in the Bay Area, that’s the biggest mark because it’s the collective big mark. Shoreline was a really, really serious one because we hadn’t come home with a crown that big before. And everybody in the Bay Area took real personal pride in the way that the band was ambassadors not only for heavy metal music around the world, but ambassadors for heavy metal music from the Bay Area. So everybody took brotherly and family type pride in it. That hang was special, that hang was deep and the people that had been there from the beginning got to puff their chests out. It was beautiful.
SC: The “One” video shoot I think is obviously a seminal moment in the band’s career and I’m interested in your recollections of it. I mean, it was like a mini-movie, it was such a dynamic piece of work, but what do you remember about doing it?
JN: Obviously stepping into that world was new for all of us. There were mixed emotions. Things like, “We’re the true core guys, we don’t do that, we play live for people. We’re not gonna worry about that kind of element, we’re not gonna spend energy competing in that element. Let it earn its way if it does.” It was the same way with this. Do we want to be shown next to whatever cheesy shit’s happening on MTV? But somehow, because of the way it was handled, the honesty, the authenticity of the thing, it was just us doing our thing. It was the way that we’d always been. And even taken down to the black and white, you know? These cats are raw. They’re still wearing what they wear on the street, on the stage, and all that shit that was so, so important to our rise. What was so important to our appeal for so many people was keeping that jeans and t-shirt vibe going, but still fucking thrashing with the head banging thing that was featured just for a couple of seconds in the “One” video. That set a spark. We’d all seen Angus do his thing, but not the fucking slam, what I call the “snap.” The snap of the neck, the snap of the hair, the snap of the pick on the bass string. The snap of my connection with Lars. So that “snap” was shown for the first time in black and white with big old fucking hair, and that kinda started a whole thing that you were talking about, the head banging… it spawned so many neck problems!
SC: This has been a wonderful chat, I have just have one more thing to ask. Is there anything that you want to spotlight that you remember that we haven’t touched on?
JN: Hmmm… I think we’ve touched on it a couple times, but now that we have time to look back and kind of analyze, the actual anguish and challenges that James, Kirk, and Lars had within their persons, and to be able to forge on and become what they’ve become even to this day, top of the heap. Amazing. They found that place, they got to that place, they stayed in that place. No fuckers have done that. What they went through in the time when I came into the band, and what they had to probably take years and years and years and years longer [getting over] than it would’ve needed to take because they kept forging on… on behalf of the name of the band, the power of the band, the pride of the band, and all the other thousands and thousands of people that the band has supported and given a paycheck to over 30-plus-whatever years. Right? Incredible. They stuck to it, they kept fighting and fighting. Sometimes we saw some of the demons come out, sometimes they came close to fucking some things up, but they didn’t let it ruin them. If anything it made them stronger – to understand it – and they’re the most worldly fucking metal band there ever could be of all time.
There’s no way that anybody’s gonna have enough time to do what they did. There’s no way, they did it. They fucking did it . And nobody’s ever gonna be able to touch what they did, because they were strong enough to go through those things and handle them. For everybody. For all the fans through all the decades they were strong enough to make that happen. That kinda shit gets overlooked and taken for granted a lot of times.
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Σοκ ο αριθμος που εγραψες… οταν βγηκε δεν ειχα καν ιδεα τι ειναι οι Metallica, παρολα αυτα… τα τραγουδια απο αυτο το αλμπουμ παιζονταν διαρκως στο ραδιοφωνο για 10 χρονια μετα την κυκλοφορια του, και μερικα παιζονται προφανως ακομα και σημερα συχνα πυκνα. Ισως η σημερινη μερα ειναι μια καλη αφορμη για να γραψουμε για το enter sandman.
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Τελευταίο καλό άλμπουμ πριν την παρακμή!! Δίσκος που έβαλε το μετάλ στα σπίτια όλων
Και ο Lars γελασε γιατί ο Lars ξέρει!
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Το τελευταιο καλο αλμπουμ των Metallica ηταν το No Life Til Leather, μετα φλωρεψαν και ξεπουληθηκαν
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Πλάκωσαν οι groupies
Όχι φωστήρα δεν έχω μιλήσει ποτέ για ξεπούλημα. Απλά άλλαξαν τον ήχο τους και δεν μου άρεσε so simple
Δηλαδή οι Metallica έχουν να βγάλουν καλό άλμπουμ από το 1991 ενώ οι Maiden έβγαλαν το Book of Souls (2015) που είναι φοβερό και τρομερό άλμπουμ και πατάει κάτω Load, Magnetic, Hardwired. Ουσιαστικά αυτό λες.
BoS > Load, Magnetic, HTSD
Ζηλεύεις;
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Θυμάμαι ότι κάποιοι τους έβριζαν και όταν έβγαλαν το black album, θεωρώντας ότι ξεπουλήθηκαν κλπ κλπ…
Άντε βγάλε άκρη… Τελικά πότε ξεπουλήθηκαν; Το '84, το '88, το '91 ή το '96;;; Να ξέρουμε δηλαδή 
edit: Σε ένα παλιό βιβλίο για τους Metallica (δεν το έχω μπροστά μου για να πω συγγραφείς), έγραφαν στο τέλος οι κομπλεξικοί κάτι του στυλ ότι “…μετά το black album, η βαρύτερη ποπ μπαντα του πλανήτη έχει άπειρες επιλογές”…
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Το οποίο δεν είναι και μακριά από την πραγματικότητα.
Δεν ξέρω γιατί κάποιον τον τρομάζει ο όρος pop. Pop = popular και σίγουρα οι Metallica είναι η πιο pop μπάντα του σκληρού ήχου.
Κάτι που ήθελαν να καταφέρουν since day one !
Όσο για ξεπούλημα… τα έχουν πει άψογα στο hooker with a penis οι tool ( είναι για “ψαγμένους” και μπορεί να μην το πιάσουν όλοι 
).
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Αυτό ήταν το βιβλίο, κάπου πρέπει να το έχω ακόμα
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Εσυ μιλησες για παρακμη, δεν ειπες οτι δε σου αρεσε ο ηχος τους.
Μακαρι κι εγω να παρακμασω ετσι, να παιζω sold out περιοδειες με πανακριβα εισιτηρια, να κυκλοφορω εναν απο τους καλυτερους δισκους της χρονιας μετα απο 35 χρονια καριερας, και να εχω τον καλυτερο ηχο σε λαηβ που εχει υπαρξει ποτε, ξεφτιλιζοντας καθε ηχοληπτη καθε μπαντας του σκληρου ηχου! Τρελη παρακμη ναι
Παιζουν sold out περιοδειες και επειδη ηταν καλοι και επειδη εκαναν και και μπιζνα . Παρακμη λεγωντας τον ήχο τους από το Load και μετά μέχρι να βγαλουν το Dm όπου και οι ίδιοι κατάλαβαν τι είχε πάει λάθος όλα τα προηγούμενα χρόνια. Δεν μίλησα ποτέ για image μουσική ακουμε χεστηκα αν έκοψαν τα μαλλιά τους κοντά η αν έβαφαν τα νύχια τους.
Είδες πουθενά να αναφέρω τους Maiden?
Τίποτα δεν είχε πάει λάθος. Απλώς δε σου άρεσε ο ήχος τους, όπως είπες. Και όπως και τότε έτσι και τώρα, they don’t give a shit
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